Forums Catholics and Catholicism Question about a particular Gospel story.

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    • AvatarAndres M
      Participant
      Post count: 3

      Hello all and blessings from the Lord,

      I just recently read this article by Simcha Jacobovici about the possibility of the Lord’s ministry having taken him outside the Holy Land, and I was wondering if I could get the perspective of the members of this forum on the claims made therein

      https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/the-lost-tribe-of-gad-found/

      What I’m wondering about the most, however, is the claim that sometimes is made that there is something wrong with the Gospel’s account that there ever were pigs in the Holy Land. Is this a possibility within the historical and geographical context of the Gospels? How do we reconcile this idea?

      I was just hoping that you could point me in the right direction.

    • David MossDavid Moss
      Keymaster
      Post count: 26

      Andre,

      Thanks for posting your query. We have just started these forums and we have not yet had many of our Facebook members move over here. I am sorry for the inconvenience, but you should get a response if you post your query in the Facebook group of the Association of Hebrew Catholics. If you are not a member of that group, please apply and I will approve you.

      In addition to our Facebook group, you can try catholic.com, which is a good Catholic apologetics site. Another avenue is Marty Barrack’s secondexodus.com. Marty is a Hebrew Catholic and his site explains much of the Jewish roots of our Catholic faith.

      Personally, I have never studied the geography, weather, etc. of the region of Israel that the person you reference writes about. However, I would be very suspect that more than 2,000 years after the fact, someone comes up with a theory that debunks the New Testament. There are many Jewish people who have tried, because they don’t believe in Jesus.

      I hope you can find an answer from one of the sources above.

      God bless,
      David

    • AvatarAndres M
      Participant
      Post count: 3

      Hi David,

      Thank you very much for your thoughtful response. It is no inconvenience at all, I will try to post this question again in the Facebook group and see if I can get some replies to this question.

      Is it ok if I mention in my post that I previously posted the question here? My hope is that this way I can get some people interested in coming over to the forums, if that’s ok with you.

      • David MossDavid Moss
        Keymaster
        Post count: 26

        Hi Andre,

        Yes, please do mention you posted here. I would like to encourage everyone to start using these forums.

        Some additional thoughts came after I posted. Try Brant Pitre at Catholicproductions. He has produced many books/videos about the Jewish roots of the faith. Another is Scott Hahn.

        In Messiah
        David

    • AvatarBrother Gilbert Joseph
      Participant
      Post count: 37

      Tried to post what I wrote on facebook but wouldn’t do so. Will try again by editing this.

      I don’t see any problem with this story actually being set in the Mediterranean Sea,=. The term in the Greek and Aramaic translates “over against Galila” (ורדו ואתו לאתרא דגדריא דאיתוהי בעברא לוקבל גלילא .) Luke 8:26 may refer to Gallia (France). The south east part of ancient Gaul was called Gallia Norbonensis so if Gadroyia refers to south eastern Spain then that makes sense.

      Luke was firstly written in Hebrew then translated into Aramaic and Greek and it is easy for readers or translators to misunderstand the original account in Hebrew. I have written about this in regards to the lost tribes mentioned by St Peter. https://aronbengilad.blogspot.com/2020/01/the-first-epistle-of-st-peter-and-lost.html

    • Avatarmark
      Participant
      Post count: 3

      Andres,

      In reference to Simcha Jacobovici’s “The lost tribe of Gad–found!,” Jesus voyaging to Spain sounds very intriguing, but I don’t think that’s what’s happening here. Matthew 8:23-34, Mark 4:35-41 and 5:1-20, and Luke 8:22-39 each present the accounts of the calming of the storm at sea followed by the healing of the Gadarene demoniacs/Gerasene or Gergesene demoniac. Mark’s and Luke’s narrations focus on one demoniac, presumably the more violent around whom the account centered.

      The Gospel of Luke mentions that Jesus and His disciples crossed to the other side of the “lake” (λίμνη in the Greek; ימא in Aramaic, which can mean lake or sea), while Matthew’s and Mark’s Gospels are nondescript, using θάλασσα (a large body of water, e.g., sea or lake) in regard to the identification of the body of water as a lake or a sea, as we distinguish them. Nevertheless, Luke’s reference to a “lake” disqualifies the Mediterranean Sea as a possibility, and the geographical descriptions of all three Gospels certainly seem to identify this lake as Lake Tiberias, also named Lake Gennesaret and the Sea of Galilee. Under favorable conditions (which they were not!), with first-century-crafted fishing boats, they may have reached the other side within perhaps six hours. In addition, Matthew’s Gospel depicts Jesus and the disciples disembarking in the territory of the Gadarenes in the district of Gedara, a well-known town of the Decapolis—hardly a mysterious place—called “the metropolis of Peraea” by Josephus. Matthew may have used the name “Gadarenes” to refer vaguely to the disembarkation site. Mark’s and Luke’s “territory of the Gerasenes” refers to the same—some manuscripts of both Gospels read “Gadarenes” or “Gergesenes.”

      The Sea/Lake of Galilee, surrounded by high hills and mountains of the Golan Heights (some of which house caves that could have been used as tombs), is more than 600 ft below sea-level. The temperature differential there sometimes produces sudden, high winds and violent storms, such as the kind depicted in the Gospels. So there is no inconsistency with the testified account taking place on the Sea of Galilee.

      Regarding the Gospels’ reference to pigs in this account, the prohibition against rearing them would be ignored because the district Jesus entered was predominantly pagan. Also, the Gospels do not state that the owners or consumers of the swine were Jews. The Gospels are not disclosing a contradiction or inconsistency; the pigs are in pagan territory.

      In “The lost tribe of Gad–found!,” Simcha Jacobovici correctly underscores the importance of Jesus’ mission to ingather the lost sheep of the House of Israel. Strong historical and genetic evidence as well as the Biblical historical narrative suggest that the exiled, northern tribes of Israel formed the origin of the Scythians, and that at least some Ashkenazi (and possibly Sephardic) Jews have Scythian ancestry. Jacobovici’s “tribe of Gad-Spain” connection may have some merit: among other reasons, some Scythians did reach and inhabit Spain.

    • AvatarBrother Gilbert Joseph
      Participant
      Post count: 37

      Thanks for sharing this Andres. It is always interesting to get different people’s opinions on such topics.

    • Avatarmark
      Participant
      Post count: 3

      Brother Gilbert Joseph–very interesting article on St. Peter and the lost tribes of Israel!

    • AvatarBrother Gilbert Joseph
      Participant
      Post count: 37

      Thanks Mark- I have been studying about the Lost Tribes of Israel for over 40 years now. I moderate a facebook page on the Tribes of Israel and Genetics. https://www.facebook.com/groups/178062239374199

      cheers Br Gilbert Joseph

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